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Thursday, January 6, 2011

2nd Big thread on Kip Litton Deleted // Update on Vermont Video

We're confused as to why the informative thread on Kip's technique(s) on was deleted. It may have been because the buzz was so great on that the thread was taking away a lot of attention from other running news.

Thanks to a comrad there is a backup of the 1st 8 pages of the thread:

There were approximately 200 posts on the subject prior to its deletion.


This is the video of the Vermont Start. Now what doesn't make sense is that Kip Litton took 4 minutes, 34 seconds to cross the starting line. He ran 2:49 net(chip) time. The leading runners wrap around the street corner about 1:25 into this video, which means he should probably be appearing at about 6:00 into the video. Kip's split for the 1st 10 miles was 1:03:20 (which is 6:20/mile). If you watch the video at 6:00, it looks like it'd be impossible to run 6:20/mile. There is just a blockade of people. 6:20/mile is a fairly quick clip and most of the runners still present at 6:00 in this video are running closer to 12:00/mile. You would expect to see someone flying by at 6:00 in the video - someone with the red Boston Marathon tank top (with a bib #1609) Litton is seen in (see picture on the left).
Kip's Splits:
10 miles in 1:03:21 (6:20/mi)
10 miles to 13.1 miles in 20:01 (6:27/mi)
13.1 miles to 20 miles in 47:17 (6:51/mi)
20 miles to 26.2 miles in 38:23 (6:11/mi)

Official Results -
Div/Tot Div 10mile Halfmar 20mile * Nettime Pace Guntime Name Age G Bib# City/state
===== ======== ===== ======= ======= ======= === ======= ===== ======= ======================== === = ==== =======================
38 5/219 M4549 1:04:22 1:24:36 2:10:18 2:52:48 6:36 2:52:52 Tom Gudas 46 M 2256 Binghamton NY
39 6/219 M4549 1:03:53 1:24:26 2:10:40 2:52:56 6:36 2:52:58 Ralph Smith 49 M 877 Raleigh NC
40 10/186 M2529 1:02:43 1:22:52 2:09:11 2:53:09 6:37 2:53:19 Kevin Schutz 29 M 3396 Etna NH
41 7/219 M4549 1:03:21 1:23:22 2:10:39 2:49:02 6:27 2:53:36 Kip Litton 48 M 1609 Davison MI


  1. It would seem that the fine folks @ are sick of this story. Unfortunately, there are still questions that haven't been answered. The less attention this gets, the longer it will go on, and the more harmful it may become.

  2. I posted on Letsrun about the Crim race and the claims of the runner in question. I just posted again this morning and it was deleted and I mentioned no names. Let me say this, please. No one is going to take a wrong turn at the Bobby Crim road race except for the lead vehicle which did so many years ago. You can't run off the course with other runners around and have no one yell to you that you are going the wrong way. Simply put, it didn't happen. Right before hitting the Bradley Hills there is a left turn going up and that's it. You can't go straight or take a right. There is a point from 5.75 to the 8 mile point that is very close together, a little too close together. One could easily stop there and walk as if injured and then pick up less than 1/2 mile away when they feel comfortable/safe blending in. He allegedly jumped in too soon and knew it when he came down the finish line. Why he would go through the chute is beyond me, but it wasn't very bright. Also, he had run it many times before, why didn't he take a wrong turn then? To lie this obviously should be beyond embarrassing. How a grown man can do this is a crying shame and he has my pity.

  3. Good news guys! I just received an email from Robert Johnson (rojo) from, in response to several repeat posts I'd made about the deletions (the "Rojo & Wejo - please read this..." threads). Anyway, here is what he said:
    I was not aware that all of the Litton threads were being deleted. I think exposing his cheating is a good thing.

    I have asked our moderator to not delete Kip Litton threads. That being said, I think there should only be one Kip Litton Thread. If my brother were in the country, i'd put back up the original thread. I have no idea who keeps posting them over and over. It's driving me nut.

    Maybe I'l start an official kip litton thread.
    Robert Johnson

  4. This was my reply to him:
    Dear Coach Johnson,

    Thank you very much for the reply. I don’t know you, but I had a suspicion that you might be unaware of what was going on. That was the only thing that made sense.

    I agree with you about only having one main Kip Litton thread. I like the idea of you starting one. I’d suggest you mention that 1.) that you were unaware they were being deleted, and 2.) request that everyone keep it to that thread as much as possible. I imagine most people will respect your wishes. I know I certainly will. My guess is that the multiple threads/repeated posts was a direct result of people’s frustration from the deleted threads with no explanation. As soon as you post something to that effect, I bet much of the frustration goes away.

    Maybe once your brother returns, you could put back up the original thread and just link to it from the one you start now? There was a TON of good research in that previous thread, and it would save people a lot of rehashing. Just a suggestion.

    Anyway, thanks again for the followup. Please let me know if I can do anything, or if you’d rather me start the “official Kip Litton” thread.

    All the best,



  7. so who is going to start the new thread?

  8. I figured I'd give it a little time (day or so?? what do you think??) to see if Rojo follows through on starting the post. I actually believe that if he just posted what he emailed me, that it would go a long way.

    If he doesn't post anything, then one of us could start the "Official Kip Litton Thread" (good name??). Whoever does it, I would suggest including an explanation - i.e. what Rojo mentioned in his email to me (that he was unaware of the deletions, supports busting Kip, won't delete any more Kip posts, but would prefer it's kept to one thread, etc...) and that there might be a possibility of Wejo retrieving the old thread.

  9. By the way, I received rojo's email tonight at 8:17pm (EST), so while I'm impatient, my girlfriend suggested I "take a deep breath", and give him a little time to get something posted. haha :) (deep breath)

  10. Good to know I wasn't the only one tempted to join in. I really don't know how I resisted.

  11. Ok, now back to the subject of this blog post - I watched the video. I'm not sure, but check out at 6:19 on the video. Rounding the corner on the inside of the turn, black short-sleeve shirt, black shorts. Looks like a black hat(?) and if you continue watching until he's almost off the screen, it almost looks like a flash of glasses and possibly a bandana. I could be seeing things though, as the video isn't very clear. I don't think I see compression socks though, which he is wearing in the race pictures later with the red tank. What do you think?

  12. Oh yeah, I forgot to include in the above post, no bib number visible.

  13. yes i do see that guy with black shirt on and black hat rounding the corner tightly (i think - if we're talking about the same figure?)

  14. Yes, rounding the corner tightly (at exactly 6:19), then running along the edge of the pack of runners (right side of our view). Then, runs out of the image in the lower right corner, about 6:54.

    That's the only person I've found so far on the video that could be him.

  15. hmm, yeah you can't quite makeit out but it almost looks like black baseball cap with the gold shades resting on it, maybe we can get a higher quality video. if that's he (no idea), still doesnt look like that figure is running 6:20 pace, he runs on the inside of the crowd then he kind of blends in before he goes off screen